|
| "Stray Kitten" Reviews/Comments [ 40 ] | | Pages (3): [ 1 2 3 > » ] | Reviewed By: Izumi chan On: August 20, 2003 08:27 CDT
Comment/Review:
What is wrong with people these days? Here I thought people would *at least* be more considerate enough to let the author explain his/her situation before posting on a public forum. And I do believe that Sardius *did* credit the Obsession website when she had first started writing this fic.
So she forgot the translator, if people actually go and download the DJ, they would know who translated it anyway. It just pisses me off when people don't know what's behind the story or haven't even *read* the disclaimer, accuses another author of plagiarism. After all, this is fanfiction we're talking about and it's not like Obsession also have the right to scanlate mangas without notifying the mangaka first. If that's the case, then we might as well all sue each other and make the lawyers millionares.
As Kato chan had previously stated before me, I refuse to visit the website now after realising how utterly rude these people are. If you don't respect another human being, why should you deserve the same respect as well?
However the over all conclusion is that Sardius DID credit the website, you have to be blind not to see it or maybe its just the fact that none of you has even read the disclaimer and decided to all join in the fun.
I'm glad Sardius is still writing otherwise it would be such a shame to lose another great fanfic writer in this genre. | Reviewed By: kato-chan [MediaMiner Member] On: July 31, 2003 10:07 CDT
Comment/Review:
This is months late, but I was just rereading this fic and decided to read the reviews cuz I was bored. I am shocked. I'm assuming most complaints are coming from 'Obsession' people and such. Have you guys ever heard of the saying 'any publicity is good publicity'???
I remember reading her disclaimer a long while back but never visited the Obsession website. When I was rereading this fic today, I thought to myself 'this is such a great plot. why don't I go read the original DJ this is based from?' I've NEVER heard of this 'Obsession' site and things therein, and in a way, Sardius was promoting it. But after reading these reviews, I refuse to ever visit it.
How immature and ugly and rude. I'm disgusted. I saw no problem in the way she credited the website. Big deal, she forgot the translator. Like that hasn't happened ever. Gah, I wish I had read these comments earlier so I could respond sooner. I'm so glad Sardius is still writing. | Reviewed By: Lady Gackt [MediaMiner Member] On: April 22, 2003 05:15 CDT
Comment/Review:
First, I'd like to get this out of the way. From Sardius' first post of this fic on the YxAML to seeing it here at MMOrg, I've always caught her note that said this was a story written based on a doujinshi found on the Obsession website (which I've even gone to check out myself during that time).
So her credits were not comprehensive enough. She's sorry. But there *was* credit given. She didn't intentionally leave information out to fool you and claim the idea as her own. She made a mistake. Is it so unforgivable?
But more to the point of this post.
I just surfed in and saw what's been going on here. And the urge to say how disappointing it is to have seen how some people reacted, is strong enough for me to post this. No matter who looked to be right or wrong, having such harsh words and accusations posted on a public forum before even contacting the author to hear her explanation is very irresponsible and unfair. As Lilla had already explained, once word spreads to public, it can't be controlled. And whether the author is found to be right or wrong, damage caused to a reputation can be irrepairable.
It's not just irresponsible and unfair, but also unkind. It hurts to be called these things. Even if Sardius made mistakes, people should remember they're speaking to another human being. And for people who aren't even directly harmed or affected by these alleged mistakes, they could have waited to hear both sides before rallying up against her to throw more injury. What do you sacrifice in allowing that small consideration? And what kind of hurt can you cause another person by ignoring it? | Reviewed By: Asuki Sugiura On: April 20, 2003 08:56 CDT
Rating(s):Style of Writing: 10 of 10
Spelling & Grammar: 10 of 10
Originality/Creativity: 10 of 10
Enjoyment Factor: 10 of 10
Overall Rating: 10 of 10 Comment/Review:
You poor thing! To get abused like that. This is by far the best Weiss Kreuz stories I have ever read. Your style of writing is beautiful! Keep it up and don't ever stop writing. Take care.
Asuki~ | Reviewed By: Andy chan On: April 19, 2003 21:06 CDT
Rating(s):Style of Writing: 10 of 10
Originality/Creativity: 10 of 10
Enjoyment Factor: 10 of 10
Overall Rating: 10 of 10 Comment/Review:
Sardius, I still love the fic and everything else you have written for us! I think it takes a great deal of creativity to take another's idea and to transform it into a different meaning. You did that. And you certainly made the characters come to life. That, in itself IS creativity. | Reviewed By: Angel~Rinoa [MediaMiner Member] On: April 19, 2003 20:03 CDT
Rating(s):Enjoyment Factor: 10 of 10
Overall Rating: 10 of 10 Comment/Review:
Boy, whatever happened to common curtosy? I liked the story either way. @_@ People these days... anywho, you did a very nice job and I congratulate you. ^___^
- Angel ^_~ | Reviewed By: Silk On: April 19, 2003 19:26 CDT
Comment/Review:
I just wanted to let you people know, that Sardius DID credit the website, Obsession AND the DJ, Utau Noraneko in the Y/A ML dated back on the 1st of Feb 2003.
Here is the link and this is what she said: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/YoujixAya/message/2449
A/N: This is a three-part fic, which was inspired by reading this dj in the `Obsession' website. I'm using the same plot line, but replacing the characters into Yohji and Aya instead. (Of course I will add my bits here and there as well.) ^__^
If you want to read the dj, called Utau Noraneko, it should be here:
http://ob-session.cjb.net/ (click on release for manga scanlations)
Sardius may not have credited the translator, Cirrus or the mangaka, Mieko Koide but she DID state where the DJ came from. So please people find out the facts before criticising someone and not just by word of mouth.
Personally I thought it was enough what Sardius did in her disclaimer but I guess a lot of you didn't read it. Also by no means did she claim this as her original fanfiction and for targeting Sardius' creativity is not just criticism but it's insulting.
People makes mistakes and Sardius should have asked permission from the translator, Cirrus or at least credit her translations. But she knows this and she feels terrible about it. So please people, think before you say something that may stop a good writer from writing. Some of the comments here seem more personal than about plagiarism. Already we have less writers out there these days due to ffnet banned on NC-17 fics, we do not need to see another one disappearing.
Sardius, I hope you do not mind me posting this comment. I have being following your fics for a long time now and let me tell you, one of the reasons why I love your fics is because of your creativity. You always have interesting and original ideas whether it is in your fanfics or fanarts. So please, don't ever stop writing because there will be a lot of people that wouldn't want to see this talent go to waste. | Reviewed By: Tea-chan On: April 19, 2003 05:12 CDT
Comment/Review:
Sardius
I really dont understand why you did it with the first 2 chapters...
I didnt mean you are a worthless writer. I thought it strange thing to do.
I'm sorry for being too harsh. I cannot deny that you are a good writer, and I guess people do make mistakes, after all we are human beings. | Reviewed By: Sardius [MediaMiner Member] On: April 18, 2003 20:54 CDT
Comment/Review:
Well thanks CJ. Truly you need not have to defend me but I for one is grateful. Well yes I certainly understand I will never ever want to do anything like that again. More to the point, I think I will stop writing for a few months at least. But still, what you said is very right. I should have being more detailed in my disclaimer and especially the translator Cirrus, who have my deepest apologises. Unfortunately I don't have he/her email address or I would have expressed my apologises there.
As for original creativity, I am glad you pointed that out. I rather get flamed millions of times than to have people tell me I lack creativity. That was the one thing that hurt most of all.
I try to make the fic as different as I could from the plot, that was one of the reason why I wrote the third chapter. But you are right, not everyone is forgiving so I just have to stand up to their comments and try not to take it into heart. I'm sure people were just angry at the time and didn't mean to be so blunt about it.
So once again, I am truly very very sorry to Cirrus, the Obsession group and to the mangaka. | Reviewed By: CJ On: April 18, 2003 20:17 CDT
Comment/Review:
please people! Stop the negative-ness of these reviews already. Sardius did credit the manga AND Obsession when she began the fic back in Feburary. Just go to the Youji X Aya ML archive and search for the her first posting of the fic "Stray Kitten". It was dated Feb 1st, 2003. And in there, Obsession's link was there as while as the name of the DJ in her disclaimer.
She may not have mentioned the DJ's name in MM.org, but Obsession was referred to at her disclaimer BEFORE she added in the credit to Cirrus' trans yesterday. The adding of the credit to Cirrus' trans must have been due to the fact that Cirrus was upset over her translation being used without credit, and it also shows Sardius' regret over not thinking of crediting the translator sooner.
I'm sure this is part of her way of apolorgizing to the tranlator. So, please don't make a direct attack at Sardius' character without much basis.
Yes, plagerism is wrong. and I'll have to say to Sardius that I personally didn't like this particular fic because it used Utau Noraneko's plot. It erks me too to see something copied. But since the credit *was* mentioned in the disclaimer, I feel that you've done what was needed.
And people, if Sardius was a plagerizer, she wouldn't even bother mentioning Obsession, and a "DJ" they released that this fic was based on. And a true plagerizer would not even care what you all thought, unlike Sardius, who's genuinely upset over all of this. A plagerizer also wouldn't bother to think of an original ending like Sardius did, he/she would just end the fic where the DJ ended. If THAT happened, you're all right in calling her lack of originality and is a plain bad plagerizer. But Sardius didn't, she made up her own chapter 3. Have any of you read it? Most didn't, as I can tell.
Sardius had her wrong in using the plot, and in not stating clearly where and who she's crediting from (on MM.org), but she did mention them! Just maybe not to the extend where you all felt she should. So, in defense of her, please don't follow word of mouth. It's always best to examine all facts, before casting judgement. Seriously, check the ML posting date and her disclaimer there. --;
To Sardius, and those who like to read on: Another thing that you may not have thought of, was the consequences of taking others' idea. Sometimes, even if you give credit, that doesn't mean the person you take it from will be okay with it automatically as well. Keep that in mind the next time you come across a plot you love and felt like exploring more in.
It maybe a better idea to take the theme or situation (and credit it too of course ^^; all fanfic writers already do that, you too, so don't worry), and expand from there, instead of using most of the plot from the story like you did this time. As you can see, doing this could upset people who failed to see your disclaimer or when you failed to provide a full, clear disclaimer.
And another thing you couldn't have thought of, was crediting Cirrus as translator. It is reasonable since you already credited the DJ and would have expected those interested to actually go to Obsession to download the scan themselves. Those interested readers will undoubtedly see the credits there in the scanlation zip file, along with the scanners', editors' name, and so on. So, I feel that it was just a detail (albeit important one, judging from the reactions) that you missed. Don't get upset over this, you did what you could, it just wasn't enough in some's eyes, that's all.
It's kinda like a song fic actually, take a fic with a Jap song with trans from some site, and a writer uses the song in their fic. Most people would just credit the songwriter and forgot about the translator. So, it's easy habit to forgot about crediting the translator's effort. But we all know deep down that the translator's work is much appreciated, since without such person, we would never be able to understand and comprehend the material.
And I'm sure my review here doesn't really cheer you up, since there are criticisms here as well. But I've followed your fics for quite sometime now, and I know that you are an original writer. I also like the ending you thought up, like one response from 'i forgot which' ML ^^;, it was a nice nice ending with warm and sweet Y/A-ness. ^^ Just don't let these comments get to you. But also know that people are not as forgiving as you wish, so there's no helping to that. and there are always people who don't know everything, so, don't mind those comments as well. You're a good writer. Learn from this, don't get too upset to the point where you want to stop writing. Your wrong wasn't THAT great. If inspiration like this comes again, just don't forget to ask all people involved for permission. But I guess you probably won't ever want to write a fic with this kind of inspiration route again. ^^;
I'll continue looking forward to more fics from you. *smile* Cheer up! :) | Reviewed By: Sardius [MediaMiner Member] On: April 18, 2003 19:38 CDT
Comment/Review:
I wasn't trying to flame. I wasn't trying to take pity, and I know what taking someone elses work means. So please I already said sorry what more do you want me to do? Everyone makes mistakes, just because I am someone that speaks this way, does not mean I was trying to take pity and push the blame aside. I did say beforehand that the manga came from Obsession and even gave links to people so they can read it. I admit I didn't state the website or the person that had translated it. So I have to say I was in the wrong. But in my author's note, I have told people where the original work came from. And they know it and they have read it. So please don't say I didn't put anything up because I did.
As for creativity, please don't put mine down. I have many fics that ARE original ideas. I think wildfaeries was the only one that addressed that so I thankyou you.
And once again, why do people always misinterrpret things? I was referring to friend as real life friends not net friend. I never claim the group Obsession as friends in the first place if that is what killerpixies were thinking.
Lastly can we please drop this issue now? I have already expressed my apologises, there is no more need to comment any further about credits and copy right issues. I think I know that myself. | Reviewed By: wildfaeries On: April 18, 2003 16:28 CDT
Comment/Review:
First of all I want to say the final chapter was great. I'd love to read more original works by you.
My only thing is: If only the last chapter was your own work, why not just write the last chapter and heavily reference the theme from Utau Noraneko? I think fanfic readers if they really love your fanfic would be more than willing to check out the original story WITH the original characters if they wanted to understand what you're basing your fanfic on. I was extremely disappointed in the lack of originality in the first 2 chapters. :(
The individuals who work hard translating and providing the scanlated work to us (note: I'm referring to Utau Noraneko from the Obsession scanlation team) deserve credit every time you plagarize their hard work. These individuals take time out of their busy schedule to provide scanlated manga to the public.
In particular, the mangaka of Utau Noraneko DESERVED credit and recognition in each chapter for the majority of your fanfic. The majority of your fanfic wouldnt have been possible if the mangaka had not created Utau Noraneko.
I think you need to understand that it is a BIG deal when you don't credit someone for their hard work. How would you feel if someone took your fanfics, used them nearly word-for-word, and didnt bother to credit you for it? Are you saying it wouldn't be a big deal for you? If you understand this, you'd also understand why people who read your fanfic are commenting on it. Don't flame about the criticisms you're receiving. Take it like the truly popular and (for the most part) original author you are, and work hard on creating your own future works.
And just for future reference, changing a few words here and there while maintaining, for the most part, the original work of another IS plagarism, in case you didn't know. Originality is yours when you create it all from scratch.
Once again, I wanted to say I enjoyed the last chapter and want to re-iterate the importance of crediting and referencing the hard work of others.
Best of luck on your future fanfics. I look forward to reading more of your works. | Reviewed By: Tea-chan On: April 18, 2003 16:28 CDT
Comment/Review:
Sardius, ITS NOT RIGHT using other people's works without giving them a credit. When you do something create something new. Truth cant even let you have a good defence: "In the former two parts well there are some differences too". It should have been completely different with just a few hints close to the original story. If you want to refer to the original REFER to it not rewrite. I hope you dont have to do the same thing each time you come up with a fic. You are not that bad | Reviewed By: Sardius [MediaMiner Member] On: April 18, 2003 07:01 CDT
Comment/Review:
Sigh...well basically I don't know what to say. I already stated beforehand this DJ was from the Obsession website and clearly wrote I am using the same plotline but replacing the characters into Yohji and Aya instead. But it wasn't enough. Anyway, I suppose that is the way with life. We got the war, we got the SARS and people just love hurting other people's feelings. I apologize to Cirrus for using her translations but there is no need to be so blunt about it. And no need to swear. Personally you could have just email me. You know, I was never meant to use this as an original fanfiction. I never intended to take credit for it. I should thankyou you for translation and the group Obsession for providing us wonderful mangas to read. I am sorry. But one thing I would like to say, not everything in this fic is the same as the manga. If you would read it, then you will notice the differences. As for you and other people's opinions, maybe you don't realise it but how would you feel like it if someone told you, you are cheap, a thief, a worthless writer? I sure don't think you would feel all that great about it. Sometimes one have to realise these words can hurt people feelings even if at the time you wanted to vent out your frustrations. And in real life situations, sometimes you can't take these back and you will regret it oneday when you wish you still had that friend with you.
So I am sorry and express my deepest regret of ever writing this fic. And I am not someone that would track you guys down and flame you back. There is no need. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. | Reviewed By: Lilla- linde.mondiaux@tiscali.fr On: April 18, 2003 06:53 CDT
Comment/Review:
To the people complaining about Sardius not giving credit where it is due I would like to point out that it is clearly stated in the first AN that this fic is a remake of the Yaoi doujinshi at obsession, which you all mention, Utau Noraneko.
Also well the third part is all Sardius' so I personally think that this fic isn't passable of being called plagiarism.
In the former two parts well there are some differences too but then if you want to find the similarities they are bound to be there as it is inspired by the doujinshi. As for the same dialogues, you are no doubt referring to the whole I am a stray part... well the story wouldn't make much sense without it, would it?
There are plenty of good writers who have taken inspiration for their stories in other mangas animes or other. This doesn't make them bad writers rather it is the ability to take something known and make out of it something new and different that makes a good writer. I think Sardius did that!
Similarities are bound to be evident in the first parts of such a fic as you start from the same background idea but then things evolve into something new and different. For a three part fic maybe that is less evident?
The lack of the clear link to the web site hosting the doujinshi I found a good precaution as we all know how it can create bandwidth problems and the dreaded direct linking messes.
Plus who amongst us yaoi fans doesn't know of Obsession? Great site by the way...
All in all I find that this flaming fest is uncalled for and would like to ask you to stop before Sardius swears off writing, as she is talking about doing, as I am sure we ALL don't want that, right?
Please if you do have comments to these few words refrain from posting further flames you can use e-mails...
On that subject *I* put my user name and e-mail addy for you to use for replies why not do that while you are flaming? It is a bit difficult to explain things to someone who only drops in and that way misunderstandings can't be cleared!
If you want to get back to me on the subject please refrain from posting here and use the address provided.
Send junk mail and die... ^.^ Sorry but got that problem at least once.
As for the writing skills comments I thought they were a just hateful we aren't all native English speakers you know... as far as I can see it comes down to not throwing the first stone.
Above all please let's all try to behave in a grown up and level headed fashion, OK? Hate mail and running off half cocked has never done anyone any good.
Thanks for reading
Lilla | | Pages (3): [ 1 2 3 > » ] |
|
|
